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Canada loses almost 322,000 manufacturing jobs in five years

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 7:02 PM EST 20/02/09

About 1.5 million jobs were created in the rest of the economy in the same period, Statistics Canada reports ...Read the full article

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  1. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Why should anyone be surprised? This was the goal of the traitors who brought in so called 'Free' trade and globalism. If we don't start making our own things again and bring back our productive capacity then we are going to become a third world economy.
  2. duc letho from Ottawa, Canada writes: U r right but the consummer on the other hand needs to be educated. He has to understand that a product made in Canada will be better (a priori) compare to some imports but also more expensive.

    Are they ready to pay the price?
  3. That Guy from Canada writes: Can someone tell me one thing, just one, that the current Ontario government has done to improve the business environment in Ontario.
    Oh, and hiring civil servants and government consultants doesn't count.
  4. J Hanner from London, Ontario, Canada writes: Wonderful jobs....................

    'Welcome to Tim Hortons make I take your order?'

    'Welcome to Wal-Mart, please have a cart'

    'Would you like to Super Size your Fries Sir?'

    .............. we have lost our manufacturing so we are going to pay dearly.
  5. Long John Silver from Barbados writes: Arrrrrr, me matey! J Hanner;
    I laughed so much I almost fell overboard. Hahaha; I can see you won't have trouble finding work. But if you do, the only thing to do is to go a-pirating.
    Welcome aboard.

    Long John Silver
  6. Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: J Hanner from London, Ontario, Canada writes: Wonderful jobs...'Welcome to Tim Hortons make I take your order?'

    Hey J, Suppose you get a CAW golden parachute, a part-time job at Tim's and go back to school to train for a decent job, you should be able to eke out a decent living for the severance period and the 40 weeks of ei kicks outs. When times are tough you do what you got to do. Things will turn around one day.

    Bin there, done that...
  7. Mark H from United States writes: 'Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Why should anyone be surprised? This was the goal of the traitors who brought in so called 'Free' trade and globalism. If we don't start making our own things again and bring back our productive capacity then we are going to become a third world economy. '

    You don't necessarily need to make your own stuff - you need to innovate. Keep the cutting-edge, high-tech stuff in-country, and export the old. North America does that better than just about anywhere else. The number of turn-the-crank, menial manufacturing jobs is not as good an indicator of productivity as innovation.
  8. Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: Made in China
    Bye Bye Jobs.
  9. g.k. starmatz from Canada writes: And all of this just because I stoped spending my money foolishly.What a way to go
  10. Michael McCarthy from Toronto, writes: Traitors brought in Free Trade? I love when economic illiterates comment on something they have no understanding off. Economies and the world change. The jobs we do change. I will buy the best product at the best price, regardless of where it is made - that is how a market works.
    The fascinating thing about the anti free traders is that they don't even look at the statistics. Prior to this downturn, we had the highest employment participation rate in our history and average incomes in constant 1981 dollars were up! Educate yourselves and stop spouting off some claptrap you heard from Jack Layton or Maude Barlow. The statistics speak for themselves.
  11. Wilf Kruggel from Canada writes: It's funny but everybody is complaining about manufacturing jobs lost in Canada. The reality is, has anybody ever given any thought as to where these jobs went, if indeed they still exist. Folks, you do not have to think too hard, when given the fact that when one hears that assembly line workers at the 'Big 3' get 73 dollars per hour with the productivity dropping to a measely 13 to 15 %. Folks, that means that these overweight individuals on the assembly line floor, for every 100 minutes they got paid for, they manage to put in 12 to 15 minutes of actual, what the union calls, work. Anyone, on the face of this earth, would not set up shop with the present labor laws that exist in Canada. The reality is that no company really plans to go broke right after they open up shop or intend to pass the profits on to the union which is what the unions think, 'it's there's' The only way that companies can keep going here is to pass the rediculous greed on to the consumer. That's why folks, companies are moving to China, India, etc, etc, where the labor is peanuts as apposed to here in Canada and above all, those companies are finally making profits. So Canada, get used to it, either that or do something real meaningful about these unions, either that or the bleeding will not stop untill the last employer and his investment dollars, has left our country. The choice is yours, do it now or wish you had done it earlier. Wilf
  12. Sue W from Canada writes: That Guy from Canada writes: Can someone tell me one thing, just one, that the current Ontario government has done to improve the business environment in Ontario......

    McGuinty: .....'I think that as an $80-billion organization that's trying to compete with the best in the world, it's really important that from time to time we refresh our outlook, our logo, how we present ourselves'

    $219,000 later:

    http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2006/06/26/to-trillium-new.jpg
  13. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Mark H We can't lose our knowlege on how to make things, its more than just work. Its national security. We can't learn to rely on other countries, our people are being braindrained. We need to know how to make things like we did in WW2 (and before), it doesn't matter if it costs more (but that wouldn't be so much the case with gold or silver standard) because we will make more and not to mention a lower trade deficit so that means lower taxes in the long run. We should be taking GM, ford and Chrysler and make them create something else other than cars. For example: 1.We could have maglev trains, free trolly systems for large and medium size cities. The key world is free because it would help the economy, get people out of their cars and be a net benefit to everyone. A free transportation system would benefit the cities more than the cost of making it. 2. Set them to work making parts for 4th Generation Nuklear (GW Bush spelling lol) plants, we need to accellerate the creation of these things. Then we need to start recycling Nuclear waste instead of burying it. Ford and GM could also work on Advanced Gen 3 reactors in the short to like this one for example: Gen 3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_CANDU_Reactor Gen 4 eventually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor 3. Geo Thermal systems, and having a coast to coast electrical smart grid is another thing GM workers could be trained to do (make parts for). My point is that it doesn't have to be cars.
  14. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: I hate it when G&M compresses my posts.
  15. Patriots in 2008 from Toronto, Canada writes: Right now it's manufacturing that's getting slaughtered but in reality, there isn't any job that anybody can perform in Canada that can't be performed at 1/10th the labour cost. For those of you who think that R&D jobs are our future - how does this statistic grab you? For every scientist or engineer that we graduate in Canada, countries like India and China are graduating 1000 scientists or engineers! And they're all happy to work for 1/10 the salary here!
  16. Arron D from Kanata, Canada writes: 100,000 CAW workers who have spent 20 years perfecting ' left screw, right screw, top screw, bottom screw' on badly designed and manufactured cars are complaining about jobs?
    I would rather buy foreign and have it work, than buy Canadian and watch it from the mechanics window.
  17. Ron Preston from TorontoOttawa, Canada writes: Almost half the jobs in textiles and clothing, long one of the largest manufacturing employers in the country, disappeared.
    We have allowed this by not buying Canadian manufactured goods so don't blame the Government.
    We all seem to not want to take the responsibility but it's our fault plain and simple.
  18. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Wilf Kruggel, Patriots in 2008 and Arron D from Kanata

    What these guys are saying to you is, 'you can learn to live and work on a plantation and like it on you will starve'.

    Thats the goal of Managed Trade for the wealthy. Wilf, well the labor board is bad now? Is it not enough that we got rid of the Unions? SHould anyone have any rights?

    I can't believe people honestly believe this stuff. I admit some unions can be abusive but not all of them and the labor board is already asleep most of the time so you want to get rid of any shred of protection? LOL
  19. Curly Maple from havenotsville, Canada writes:

    Isn't capitalism the best of all possible worlds?.............(heavy sigh!)
    Let's all stand around and do a circle jerk to Adam Smith's 'The Wealth Of Nations'.

    hoka hey
  20. j berniquer from ontario, Canada writes: It sucks....plain and simple!!!
  21. Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Those jobs are gone forever. Consumers want all the goodies but withlow prices. Most will not pay more for products made in Canada. Perhaps we should have listened to those who could foresee this, allowing more time to train workers for higher skilled tasks. This would have lessened the pain and helped at least some of the effected workers. Now that the $hi77 has hit the fan it's too late. There won’t be any easy solutions here.
  22. Jim Gray from Kingston, Canada writes: Statistics can be interpreted. How many of these 'lost' jobs are due to offshore loading and how many are due to 'productivity' gains? Innovation, although frightening because it doesn't comply with the widget economy, is a route that our government is shy to explore. Ontario has dabbled with campaigns for purchasing locally. The federal government seems adrift. How about in investing in Canada? Not just forestry and mining but films? Why did Paul Gross have such a had time finding the money to make Passchendale, a Canadian story? Australia has a vibrant film industry and is 20 years further ahead with the same size domestic market. It takes will and a concentrated effort. Regionalized parties only leads to bickering and political paralysis.
  23. J Hanner from London, Ontario, Canada writes:
    LMAO. Thanks for the comments guys. :)

    My next job will be digging a post hole for my new 'bail out mailbox' at the end of my lane way. I wonder how long before a cheque lands in it?

    We are in tobacco country near London so there are tons of bail out mailboxes in the the neighborhood right now.

    I often wonder who the working saps are that generate the money for these bail outs. I guess that would be me as well.

    Anyhow, bail outs or transfer payments to Quebec.... it's all the same waste to a good ol' white anglo Saxon boy from Ontario.
  24. Another Option canada from Canada writes: All of us will end up paying for the cheap goods we can buy that are made in LCC ( Low Cost Countries ). Not every-one gets the union job that is just a myth. Jobs moved there because costs are too high here. To high due to Safety and health costs. Envirmental costs. As well as some costs to high here because our government does not subsidise eg food costs and housing in some places. Where in these LCC's they don't worry about health and safety or the Enviroment Hell that's free. Just get that guys hand out of the machine so we can get it going again. As well our school system and stygma failed to train personel on manufacturing. Assuming that getting a Eng degree from a university will do it. For years Canada and the USA had European tool makers to build the toolings and machines. They have all retired now and left a huge gap between the engineer's and the actual finished product. Where some LCC countries actual train people including their engineers on how to make things. So where do you get that widget made Well you have to go to China to get that made now Plants in Canada could not figure out how to build the machine to make it. So untill you start filling the gaps in the trained personal process and Tariff items where enviromental damages are caused. Example The air you breath will not be free for ever if every-one thinks that it is free to pump their polutants into it. Eventualy every-one on earth will pay with their health and lives. Wait the real wars in the future will not be over oil but for clean water and soil to grow food.
  25. Otis Putney from Autoworker, Canada writes: Figured this article would get the cubicle rats and Wilf types yapping
  26. Adam A from Montreal, Canada writes: The economic illiteracy of these comments is staggering, but sadly unsurprising. I suppose 100 years ago, these people would have been lamenting the 'decline' of our agricultural sector. As much as we all miss the good old days when a lad could look forward to a life as a assembly-line worker or a ditch digger, I suspect that working as a pharmaceutical researcher, a computer programmer, a chemical engineer, etc. is somewhat more rewarding (and productive).

    The obsession with manufacturing is almost Soviet-inspired in its stupidity. Is it really that big a problem that standards of living are continually rising?

    Incidentally, it might interest you all to know that manufacturing output in Canada is trending upwards:

    http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhilecanadianiniti/2006/04/canadas_manufac.html (unfortunately the graph ends in 2006, I can't find a more up-to-date one).
  27. Wilf Kruggel from Canada writes: Silver standard, When I hear your type whinning about plantations, etc, It's quite obvious, you haven't been far from home, in your lifetime. A fact of life , There is no way in hell, when an employee has a grade two education, can pass the chew gum and walk at the same time test, This individual was given the powere over 100 years ago, to shut his employer down till the employer after months of being on strike, gives in to that individuals greed. This individual will never make that lost money back but, 'HE DID WIN AND GOT HIS WAY'!!!! This clown and others like him, had these powers legislated to them over 100 years ago. Now, the other fact of life, what that employer manufactured, the prices are going up, 'like it or lump it'. Realistically speaking, this does not make an iota of sense. The guy was making a living, the employer had his costs to deal with, plus all the risks associated with running a business but greed got in the way. The 100 pluss year Canada Labor act must be dealt with or else wi will be a huer of wood and haulers of water. We will soon be just that, thanks to the Canada Labor act. Wilf
    t
  28. In Solidarity from Motown a little bit south, Canada writes: Just another article to get the union bashers fired up. This is getting soooooooooooooo OLD.
  29. Otis Putney from Autoworker, Canada writes: Old it is Solidarity. But it has been at times, entertaining. Now even the mindless dribble from Wilf is boring.

    Id rather watch paint dry
  30. A. Nonymous from TV Ville, United States writes: NO CUTBACKS!

    NO CONCESSIONS!

    no jobs!
  31. Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: Otis Putney from Autoworker, Canada writes: Figured this article would get the cubicle rats and Wilf types yapping

    Otis: I know what a milf is, what's a wilf?
  32. A Calgarian from Canada writes: It called progress!
  33. Get back to Work from vancouver, Canada writes: unless you are manufacturing soemthing unique you can't pay big salaries in manufacturing. Making autos is not unique.

    Candians should focus on high tech goods and indsutrial equipment. The USA and even high priced silicon valley has lots of manufacturing jobs in that area and these companies are globally competative.

    I would start with equipment for oil & gas and high value, custom building materials.
  34. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: We have lost our manufacturing jobs because we were not competitive.

    'PRICE, QUALITY and service' rule the products of the manufacturing industry!

    What did you expect when you allowed government to support inefficient business?

    What did you expect when we let unbridled labor demands to rule?

    What did we expect when we allowed unbridled environmentalists to rule?

    What did we expect when we allowed unbridled credit and debt to accumulate?

    What did we expect when we allowed unbridled erosion of out moral imperative?

    Time to wake up and look at ourselves in a mirror.
    .
  35. mike mc from Miramichi NB, Canada writes: Nothing is happening that could not be predicted. Lets face it, in order to sell things you need people making a wage above poverty. Short term Business thought it was great to ship out jobs to China, etc. But now the chickens have come home to roost. The American middle class have been pressed to the wall and can't afford to buy any more. So now long term you can make your car anywhere you want. No one can buy them any longer. Why not go sell this crap in China/ Korea/Japan where it was made? Perfect example of this idiot thinking was Canadian Govt buying knifes for their soldiers that are made in China instead of supporting local Grumman knives in Canada. Ontario company out bid Grumman by getting knives made in China. Canada looses out. I wonder if Chinese military would buy knives made in Canada for their military?
  36. Otis Putney from Autoworker, Canada writes: @Midtown Bob

    Thanks!I had alot of fun trying to think of what a wilf could be, but ,to keep it clean, I had to come up with 'worker I'd like to fire'
  37. Otis Putney from Autoworker, Canada writes: Dick..

    Time for your boss to wake up and figure out why you have so much time on your hands
  38. nitro meyi from toronto, Canada writes: look guys i am an industrial designer that graduated in 2004 (the year canadian manufacturing broke)...sure it was tough to find something even minimally related to designing products, but i ended up realizing that you cant always expect the fat cow to live forever....recognize it china, japan, europe and the middle east have beaten us in quality of manufacturing... we gloated on our past glory for so long we have missed the mark on that area, but it is not all bad, we have become a financial example to the world apparently, being tight on money has made us nimble to crisis...so it is not all bad, the problem is that this country is affraid of adapting, but if i was able to do it, why would 50% of the population not? people the sky is not goig to fall and the world come to an end, this is literrally a sign that if we do not start adapting and relizing that we have connected the globe 100% we are going to go into WW3 without even knowing it...sure times are tough, but in 1929 the world didnt come to an end...we went through WW2 and still the world didnt end...the oil crisis happened and the world didnt come to an end.... things will turn around eventually, we just have to stop being so stubborn and leave our differences behind and adapt to our new realities
  39. Mister Fartleberry from Toronto, Canada writes: Our politicians got us into this. Remember it was Bill Clinton that got China into Most Favoured Nation status a decade ago. Remember when we used to make colour televisions in Midland Ontario?
  40. Michael Manning from Mississauga, Canada writes: Michael McCarthy from Toronto, writes: 'Economies and the world change. The jobs we do change.'

    But what about the poor typesetters? They've been out on strike since the evil newspapers went to electronically-set type in the 1960's! It's not fair. We're talking about people's livelihoods here. The government should pass a law that we can only read newspapers that are set by hand by unionized typesetters.

    How about the poor guys who lost their jobs when this new-fangled gramaphone made player-pianos out-of-date. It just isn't fair. The government should pass a law that every venue with a liquour license has to have an off-key player-piano.

    The government has got to ensure that everything remains exactly as it was, forever. Otherwise it is a traitor to the working man.
  41. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Hey wilfy, what's the 'canadian labor act ' ???

    ROTFLMAO !!!!
  42. Michael Manning from Mississauga, Canada writes: Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: 'I hate it when G&M compresses my posts. '

    So do I.

    Use a couple of line break codes after each paragraph. They are the lesser than sign followed by BR follwed by the greater than sign. (Obviously I can't type that string of code out 'cause you wouldn't see it.)
  43. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    I can imagine the erection the first businesman got when he realized Chinese and Bengladeshi etc workers would 14 hours a day for a bowl of rice and when they passed away from inhaling chemicals and smoke at the machine their relatives would come in and take the body away - at their expense.

    Seems a few decades of that were wonderful but all the capitalists have shite in their own nests. Why ??

    Greed. And they are running out of buyers for the junk they were making.

    I am surprised they didn't make large container ships with oars and galley slaves to keep the cost of delivery down......

    Hey there's a terriffic opportiunity for a capitalistica fella like wilfie.

    WILFS GALLEY SLAVE AGENCY

    Part time of course. (no beneifts and none of those pesky regulations)

    One way only .......
    Advantage business......
  44. Long John Silver from Barbados writes: DANGER DANGER; A new world order has engulfed us and wiilll take over.
  45. nitro meyi from toronto, Canada writes: Vern....when was the last time you made your own clothes, grew all of your food, or bought something made entirely in canada....i am sure that in your home i can find tags that say made in china, made in vietnam, made in mexico, made in poland or made in turkey....sure you buy local and all...but im pretty sure that jacket or those jeans you got at low price with a 'not made in canada' tag....so dont be two faced here now...
  46. Allan Beveridge from Edmonton, Canada writes: Michael Manning, I am assuming you are being a little sarcastic in your comments. If not I assume you would also expect we still keep cart wheel makers employed, revert to switchboards to keep them working, or should have hammers made by blacksmiths, after all they deserve a wage too. The world owes no one anything. I would be a good idea for everyone to remember that likely the only thing permanent for us besides death is change.
  47. Roger That from Canada writes: I don't get it. On the 'Inflation' comments-page, half the comments contend that Statscan is lying about the inflation numbers based on their own buying habits. But over here, almost everyone seems to take the jobs report at face value. Two theories:

    1. Because I paid 20% more for my car insurance this year and still have a job, inflation is actually 20% and there is no unemployment.

    2. People who post at the G M are curmudgeons/weird/crazy. (Of course, I guess that may include me too)
  48. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Look this is not about the 'Type Setters' or the Yarn spinners' this is about deindustrializing a nation. Turning us in to a third world economy. Innovation is stifled by the government or quickly sent on slave nations. The 'tech boom' was suppose to be our next economy but of course that was quickly squashed by Globalism. Whats left? I KNOW the 'new economy'..yep coffee shop jobs and McDonalds.

    Without industry we can't defend ourselves, it turns us in to slaves period. Its not whining or anything else.. Again with the insults.

    Long John Silver from Barbados writes: DANGER DANGER; A new world order has engulfed us and wiilll take over.

    You have got that right, and the people brainwashed by them are all over this place.
  49. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Why should anyone be surprised? This was the goal of the traitors who brought in so called 'Free' trade and globalism. If we don't start making our own things again and bring back our productive capacity then we are going to become a third world economy.

    ====================

    I agree. Free Trade is a way to allow companies continually to reduce their costs by moving work to cheaper and cheaper labour markets. Once one company does it, its competitors have limited choices unless they are innovative enough to improve local productivity sufficiently to compete. In many cases, the quality of the work done offshore is not as good as that done here and it is not truly clear how much cheaper it is to go this route in the long run.
  50. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Vern McPherson

    WILFS GALLEY SLAVE AGENCY

    LOL you have to that right, Soon we can all be like the Bengladeshi. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
  51. NL_Expatriate www.nlfirst.ca from Canada writes: Where is the equality among provinces?
    Where is the vision for the majority of the members in confederation? Versus what we have now which is a vision for the majority of the population to gain power whether you be in power or opposition.

    NL - the highest public debt load in Canada - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - the highest unemployment in Canada - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - the worst provincial infrastructure in the country - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - newly signed Hebron deal alone will add approximately $8 billion to the coffers of the rest of Canada - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - billions more flowing to the coffers of the federal government from off-shore development - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NS - Harper strikes a backroom deal with NS so that only NL is affected by this most recent unilateral change to the Atlantic Accord - those unprincipled idiots (no sarcasm here).

    The new version of the NEP, created and imposed by a leader from Alberta. How ironic is that?
    EQUALITY OR EXIT!
  52. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Chris Halford

    Thats right, but we are at a point where you can only innovate so much with our limited technology. The government or special interests stifle new tech so we never get ahead. The guy that discovered (or rediscovered it is more like it) Zero point energy was killed not to long ago. They are just picking up and leaving instead innovating because its cheaper and easier. There is no national loyalty, its all about the globe and the cheapest labor.

    But now its going to crash, this foolish economic policy is coming to an end and people are going to die for it. Some of the people who laugh and spout their Keynesian and/or Neo liberal nonsense will not be laughing in a few years thats for sure.
  53. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Roger That from Canada writes: I don't get it. On the 'Inflation' comments-page, half the comments contend that Statscan is lying about the inflation numbers based on their own buying habits. But over here, almost everyone seems to take the jobs report at face value. Two theories:

    1. Because I paid 20% more for my car insurance this year and still have a job, inflation is actually 20% and there is no unemployment.

    2. People who post at the G M are curmudgeons/weird/crazy. (Of course, I guess that may include me too)

    ===================

    I believe StatsCan in both cases but I am very critical of the G&M's ability to write cogent headlines and articles that provide a balanced view of what the StatsCan reports say.

    Posters here tend to believe the numbers that support their own ideologies. StatsCan deals with real numbers, not political spin - the text provided with the numbers may be spun, I guess, but I like to think that even Yo! Steve! wouldn't be over at Tunney's Pasture threatening the analyst with sever repercussions if he/she doesn't toe the CPC line.

    I will admit that I am a curmudgeon/weird/crazy.
  54. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Silver Standard, Vern McPherson - 'WILFS GALLEY SLAVE AGENCY'. Best thing I've seen on these Comments for a long time!! Wilf seems to have a very low opinion of his fellow countrymen's ability to build things. I think it's a lot more likely that some poor b@stard in a Mexican or Pakistani sweatshop doesn't have a Grade 2 education than the average manufacturing worker in this country.
  55. Allan Beveridge from Edmonton, Canada writes: Chris (and Silver), I believe I agree with your points, futher, our government is not funding the research needed to ensure we are positioned for the jobs of tomorrow. Our PM does not appear to understand that one of the keys to our prosperity is innovation. He may have the Alberta mentality in that when the price of oil drops so do the jobs, but the price eventually goes back up and the work returns to pump out the oil again. This does not apply to other industries where loss of market means loss of jobs, and the jobs do not return when the market picks back up. Chris alluded to this, I believe, by stating that we, '...allow companies continually to reduce their costs by moving work to cheaper and cheaper labour markets.'
  56. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Mark H from United States writes:

    You don't necessarily need to make your own stuff - you need to innovate. Keep the cutting-edge, high-tech stuff in-country, and export the old. North America does that better than just about anywhere else. The number of turn-the-crank, menial manufacturing jobs is not as good an indicator of productivity as innovation.

    ==================

    Unfortunately, both the U.S and Canada has put the manufacturing of innovative products overseas too. In some case, even the development is being done partly or wholly overseas. As long as companies are allowed to do this, they will continue to do so if it helps their bottom line. A lot of them don't care about their own employees and as long as they own the IP, they think they're safe. In reality, the knowhow is being exported and we are all hurt in the long run.
  57. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Chris Halford

    There are a lot of people who hate their country, I don't. I want US to do well and we can. We just need a government that actually works for its citizens. We now have people in power that are bought and paid for by banks and politicians. They took away our work and gave us credit cards. They somehow think by getting rid of our industry we will innovate out of needing one?? :) Makes sense huh. Then they go on about Yarn spinners and things like that. I am all for innovation and technology advancement even if it comes at the price of work (I am no luddite) but it has to be domestic first. Trade is fine within nations of similar economies but when everthing is just shipped away and we have no chance then we simply become a third world country.
  58. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: ( correction)

    Banks and CORPORATIONS

    Finally think about this, do you think we could have won WW2 with the economy we have now? NO WAY! If we were ever invaded (our resources) we would be defenseless, no factories means no real military if we can't depend on imports.
  59. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Chris Halford Thats right, but we are at a point where you can only innovate so much with our limited technology. The government or special interests stifle new tech so we never get ahead. They are just picking up and leaving instead innovating because its cheaper and easier. There is no national loyalty, its all about the globe and the cheapest labor. ** I agree that innovation can only help in limited cases but there are companies who have made it work. But now its going to crash, this foolish economic policy is coming to an end and people are going to die for it. Some of the people who laugh and spout their Keynesian and/or Neo liberal nonsense will not be laughing in a few years thats for sure. ** There is a huge upheaval coming that's for sure. The current subprime/ABCP-driven crisis is making people think about these issues. In the long run, the developed countries cannot allow their jobs to continue to leak offshore and governments will have to step in. The developing countries have a window here to drive their own innovation, as the Indians have for example, before there is a reduction in the subcontract business. ** BTW, what is 'Neo liberal'? I have a mental image of what a neo-con is but I haven't a clue what a 'Neo liberal' might be.
  60. Silver Standard (Our Government doesn't work for us) from Canada writes: Neo COn is the same thing, the europeans call it Neo-Liberal. I have been watching a lot of Foreign news.
  61. That Guy from Brampton, Canada writes: There is a super simple solution. DON'T BUY CRAP FROM CHINA!!!!! Buy products that are made in Canada or grown locally. Support your neighbours.

    When I was trying to decide on a Mazda 3 or a Honda Civic, I bought the civic since it kept people in Alliston working. Sure I could have bought a cheap Korean car, but how does that help Canadians? With all of the recalls on stuff made in China (melamine in baby formula, lead in almost every paint that leaves China, hundreds of toys at Christmas) you get what you pay for. Pay a bit more for something made here, and you get peace of mind knowing that you aren't giving you baby dangerous toys or baby formula.
  62. That Guy from Brampton, Canada writes: Thank Unions for paying people $67 / hr (the big 3) and pricing us right out of the world economy. How can we compete when uneducated people make a hundred g's a year.

    Canada will lose a lot more manufacturing jobs since we still have people demanding obsurd amounts of money to screw in a lightbulb. Canada better figure that out soon and start getting involved in other sectors. Manufacturing is done in Canada.
  63. Allan Beveridge from Edmonton, Canada writes: That Guy from Brampton, "There is a super simple solution. DON'T BUY CRAP FROM CHINA!!!!!"

    I do look at where products are made, and personally prefer to pay 10-20% more for products that are made in Canada versus elsewhere. I buy North American made cars for the same reason (not that I am enamoured with the auto unions). Nor am I saying I do not buy products from other countries, only that where a comparable or equivalent product is available I will buy the Canadian made version.

    Of course a Made in Canada option needs to be available. Buy products that are made in Canada or grown locally. Support your neighbours.
  64. Adam A from Montreal, Canada writes: "Finally think about this, do you think we could have won WW2 with the economy we have now? NO WAY! If we were ever invaded (our resources) we would be defenseless, no factories means no real military if we can't depend on imports."

    Right, obviously our inability to mobilize a vast military machine is a serious problem. Oh, for the days when we could militarize society quickly, when we followed the Dear Leader's wise policy of juche...
  65. thomson gary from Canada writes: Canadian textiles are now only a niche industry. Buy clothes from stores that get stock from a variety of countries, ie Mark's ... , and not from stores that are agents for the PRC, ie Walmart.
  66. dave charlston from toronto, Canada writes: We are now approaching something far worse than a recession.
  67. Allan Beveridge from Edmonton, Canada writes: One thing we do need to remember is that household income is a factor. Canadian products can be more expensive so the more one makes the more options they have for what they purchase and from whom.

    I think I have been in a Wal-Mart store once in the last 7 years (the one time was to get something as a gift for my blind nephew that was only available at Wal-Mart). Why do I not shop there? Well, the only way I have to influence things is through what I choose to spend my money on. I do care to much for Wal-Marts procurement methods (or sources such as China etc.), how they deal with their staff, and certainly do not agree with their corporate practices. Fortunately for me, at least at this point, I can afford to shop elsewhere. This same option is not available for everyone or even most people. They need to save every penny they can to cover the cost of simply living.
  68. sd c from oshawa, Canada writes: Your correct we should be making less than minimum wage.......ford recently re-negotiated its contract with the union in Mexico. In order to secure new product, all new employees will start at $2.10, half the full rate for a period of 3 years.
  69. Smokezz from Southern Ontario from Canada writes: Wilf Kruggel and That Guy from Brampton: Wow, you're both idiots. The Big 3 did not PAY anyone $67 or $73 an hour... Use Google. Figure out where those numbers came from before you post. They were still overpaid however.
  70. Stude Ham from Canada writes:
    canada is recession proof. it's got loads of oil and other raw resources to bolster its economic outlooks.

    and if you believe this CCRAP then you haven't understood the alberta disease.

    and you are willing to buy into ponzi schemes.
  71. Brian Pelican from Denver, United States writes: I am disturbed at the decline in the standard of English these days. A poster above uses the word "your" where he means "you're" as in you are. A number of other posters here don't know or don't care about the difference between there and their. Another misuse is "it's" in the case of the possessive, rather than only in the case of "it is".

    What are schools teaching these days, or in this electronic age is it considered to be archaic to use correct English?
  72. Joe Citizen from EVERYTOWN, Canada writes: ..... DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY

    STEPHEN HARPER HAS EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL ..... OR SO HE SAID REPEATEDLY DURING HIS RECENT ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

    EITHER THE MAN IS A COMPLETE INCOMPETENT OR AN INSIDIOUS LIAR OR BOTH.

    I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE BOTH.

    HE IS A MAN OF LITTLE PERSONAL ACCOMPLISHMENT. HIS FATHER WAS AN OIL COMPANY EXECUTIVE AND HE FOLLOWED IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF HIS FATHER.

    BELIEVE OR NOT HE HAS A MASTERS DEGREE IN ECONOMICS. THE RESULTS OF HIS ACTIONS MAKE THIS VERY HARD TO BELIEVE .... I KNOW.

    HOWEVER, HE IS QUITE A GOOD AND PERSISTENT LIAR WHO ALSO HAS A TALENT FOR MUCK-RAKING AND INTIMIDATION. THIS MUCH WE DO KNOW.

    HARPER HAS THE WORST ECONOMIC RECORD IN THE PAST 40 YEARS .... AND IT LOOKS AS IF HE IS ON COURSE TO HAVING THE WORST ECONOMIC RECORD IN CANADIAN HISTORY.

    PEOPLE HET THE GOVERNMENT THEY DESRVE.
  73. Accountant from Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: Most people are arguing here against free trade.

    I feel for the families that have been put through hardship, people losing their jobs and confidence, it is rough. But we live in Canada and we support each other through these hardships, including E.I. and job training programs. We need to continue this effort with full force so that Canadians, primarily fathers with children, keep their confidence and see a strong light at the end of the tunnel.

    In the long-term competition makes us produce the best and produce it for less. This provides wealth to all Canadians. Look at Ontario. In just ten years the number of workers in manufacturing have declined in half, but output has risen, and quality has gone through the roof. Now we only produce the cream of the crop, and that is where the high paying jobs are. That is a testament to the process working.
  74. Green Canada from Edmonton, Canada writes: Michael McCarthy from Toronto,...you criticize the anti free traders and yet we don't and never have had free trade so arguments about the glories of the market are somewhat specious.

    Every developed country is protectionist to some degree and it irks me to no end. Further, the illustration of the failure of the free market system is the financial and auto bail outs that are currently being handed out. Personally I would have let the banks go under and let the cards land as they may. It would certainly wipe out most investment income but since a lot of that income is attributable to non-tangible values it seems like our just reward.

    I would put alot more value in the invisible hand if the greedy heart and head of people weren't such a dominating force.
  75. Brian Pelican from Denver, United States writes: Chris above says "Unfortunately, both the U.S and Canada has put the manufacturing of innovative products overseas too. In some case, even the development is being done partly or wholly overseas. As long as companies are allowed to do this, they will continue to do so if it helps their bottom line. A lot of them don't care about their own employees and as long as they own the IP, they think they're safe. In reality, the knowhow is being exported and we are all hurt in the long run".

    There is a difference between Canada and the US in that the latter actually innovates, like the PC and the internet you are using . If you owned the business, would you give away 10-20% of your bottom line to save N American jobs? I think not. This is not to say that N America is not hurt by the manufacturing jobs going overseas. However, I ask you, given that the US takes 70% of Canadian exports, should it rather just restrict its purchases of Canadian goods to only those which it cannot produce itself, which really is just oil which, hopefully, in the foreseeable future it will be able to innovate away from, to nuclear power for instance.
  76. Will Partridge from Canada writes: Wilf, the $73 per hour thing was debunked dozens of times over as a right-wing lie. Anybody repeating it at this point is either too dumb to breath or a shameless liar. Which one are you?
  77. double mike from Canada writes: .
    Protectionism is a biggest danger to the modern world. It's so sad to see how clueless are anti-globalists. Aren't we supposed to have an educated population? Doesn't look like it.

    Just a couple of things to think about:
    Low wages countries aren't going to stay low wages. Outsourcing software development to India, for example, is getting less and less profitable because of rising labor costs and management overhead. Leave alone scam scandals in the industry up there.

    Bananas and cotton don't grow in Canada, but we do have some uranium. And I'd rather have LCD screens produced as far from my home as possible. There are some really nasty chemicals involved.
    .

  78. Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Canada writes: . That Guy from Brampton, Canada writes: There is a super simple solution. DON'T BUY CRAP FROM CHINA!!!!! Buy products that are made in Canada or grown locally. Support your neighbors. ..... With all due respect. Look at the back of your computer monitor, keyboard and mouse and see where they are made. Look at any of the assorted electrical and consumer electronics. Regardless of the nameplate on the front look and see where they were made. You guessed it. There are probably some parts of your Honda that are made offshore.
  79. j m from Canada writes: productivity is like profit to a capitalist, a goal that can't be attained but eventually creates monolithes while the others starve. we lost these jobs to cheap labour and productivity. we want more productivity. this will equal less jobs. maybe higher paying jobs, but less overall wealth. we want cheaper goods because we have relatively less money that we did 30 years ago (we have not made much real gains). remember when grampa could buy his house and car and granny didn't need to work?) an economy is relative. i find it amusing that workers are constantly blamed for our economy. workers ARE the economy. money is a means, ideas and entreprenuerial spirit is a means, but workers and labour create the wealth. screw the workers by undercutting unions and offshoring to countries that don't abide by agreed upon moral standards? then you screw the economy.
  80. Brian McAndrew from Aurora, ON, Canada writes: Why are labour rates in Canada so high? What are labour rates in China, India, etc. so low? Why don't we just revert back to slavery? then the Mass'ers can make maximum profit?
  81. Mickey Hickey from Toronto, Canada writes: Canadian manufacturing was gutted by the appreciation of the Canadian petro dollar while our federal government sat idly by applauding the commodities boom. The commodities and the petro dollar booms have now collapsed and we are left with idle rusted plants and unemployed people all across Canada. Our Master of Economics did not lift a finger to mitigate the disaster that he should have known would befall the country. Alberta was as hooked on issuing tar sands building permits as the most crack addled addicts in our deteriorating down towns is addicted to cocaine. What we have here is bunchy of squabbling principalities one of whom openly declares itself as sovereign and another that slips in and out of the closet at opportune times. Canada is quite incapable of developing a national industrial policy and will (is) paying the price. The prime minister as Trudeau said is not a head waiter for the provinces as is Harper. Ideologically hobbled and politically blinkered we are stumbling down the path to poverty and irrelevance. Think about that next time you vote for a tax cut.
  82. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: When are you people going to realize that this is an agenda being played out by both conservative and liberal governments around the world. Ignatief was shipped in. He was selected. He would do no different than what Harper is doing now if he were the PM. Don't you get it? Our politicians serve the common shareholders of the worlds largest corporations (including the media). Your vote doesn't mean anything.
  83. Chris E. from Canada writes: The old economy is gone, and it is not coming back. The 50 year party from 1950 to 2000 is over. We are looking at stagnation, reduced opportunities, and civil unrest.
  84. Brunswicker Ponder from Canada writes:
    reg - you got that right, obama was 'selected' by the elite, not 'elected' by the people.
    his story is so concoted, little man rising up to guide america. it is all a crock, planned conspiracy to load up the taxpayers with unsurmountable debt.
    40% of tax nows goes to fund the debt, 10x debt, and an interest rate spike from 1% to 10% and tax will go up by a factor of 10x10=100. 40%x100=40 , tax will be 40x your annual salary, understand now, salvery for the common man.
  85. Brunswicker Ponder from Canada writes:
    am i right or wrong in my calc's above?
  86. Wilf Kruggel from Canada writes: Otis putney, talking about rather watching paint dry, you sound like a union hound so you, no doubt, are well experienced at it, I can assure you, tootles, Wilf.
  87. Carl White from Canada writes: "Wilf Kruggel from Canada writes: It's funny but everybody is complaining about manufacturing jobs lost in Canada. The reality is, has anybody ever given any thought as to where these jobs went, if indeed they still exist. Folks, you do not have to think too hard, when given the fact that when one hears that assembly line workers at the 'Big 3' get 73 dollars per hour with the productivity dropping to a measely 13 to 15 %. Folks, that means that these overweight individuals on the assembly line floor, for every 100 minutes they got paid for, they manage to put in 12 to 15 minutes of actual, what the union calls, work. Anyone, on the face of this earth, would not set up shop with the present labor laws that exist in Canada. The reality is that no company really plans to go broke right after they open up shop or intend to pass the profits on to the union which is what the unions think, 'it's there's' The only way that companies can keep going here is to pass the rediculous greed on to the consumer. That's why folks, companies are moving to China, India, etc, etc, where the labor is peanuts as apposed to here in Canada and above all, those companies are finally making profits. So Canada, get used to it, either that or do something real meaningful about these unions, either that or the bleeding will not stop untill the last employer and his investment dollars, has left our country. The choice is yours, do it now or wish you had done it earlier." Because everyone working in manufacturing had the same deal as the CAW, did they? And because wages contribute so much more than a fairly modest fraction to the final price of products? And because workers really *deserve* to be paid 0.25$/hr for their labor, like some make in the sweatshops of China? Bah. No matter how you try to pin the blame, it's just a race to the bottom, exploiting desperate people elsewhere in the world for labor and lax environmental laws.
  88. Carl White from Canada writes: "Chris E. from Canada writes: The old economy is gone, and it is not coming back. The 50 year party from 1950 to 2000 is over. We are looking at stagnation, reduced opportunities, and civil unrest."

    Yet it still doesn't stop our inspired leaders from packing in another 250,000 people a year into the country, does it. Despite every other developed nation, which already had lower per capita immigration rates to start with, having done so.

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carefulspider says...

I'm sorry to say this but it's true. We'll lose all machinists, engineers, tool and die makers and God help us if there is ever another war. Tried to say some of this years ago. We are heading to third world status if we don't start protecting industry. It's not rocket science.